Purpose Driven life class for offenders???!!!

Just Arrived Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 4

I went to court today for a traffic offense and listen to others before me with crimes like dui's and drug offenses get senteced. The judge gave them the option to do church, community service or time. He also sentenced them to a purpose driven life class. Some people who took the community service still had to take the class. Is that legal? I know people can pick the church they want but sending people to a xtian themed class sounds unconstiutional to me.

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:50 am

iona_yanira wrote:

I went to court today for a traffic offense and listen to others before me with crimes like dui's and drug offenses get senteced. The judge gave them the option to do church, community service or time. He also sentenced them to a purpose driven life class. Some people who took the community service still had to take the class. Is that legal? I know people can pick the church they want but sending people to a xtian themed class sounds unconstiutional to me.

I'm not sure this is any more unconstitutional then the public-school led pledge of allegiance. What I'm more interested in knowing is why he's using this as "punishment" and if he's a supporter of Christianity.

Graduate Thinker Joined: Mar 26, 2008 Posts: 550

Quote:

What I'm more interested in knowing is why he's using this as "punishment" and if he's a supporter of Christianity.

Maybe he sees himself as a reformer, and this is his opportunity to show criminals Christianity.

Of course, this is blatantly unconstitutional! I am outraged, but eventually there is going to be a case involving the ACLU related to this guy. I can almost sense it.

Just Arrived Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 4

Cygnus wrote:

Quote:

What I'm more interested in knowing is why he's using this as "punishment" and if he's a supporter of Christianity.

Maybe he sees himself as a reformer, and this is his opportunity to show criminals Christianity.

Of course, this is blatantly unconstitutional! I am outraged, but eventually there is going to be a case involving the ACLU related to this guy. I can almost sense it.

Yes I do believe he is christian. I am not sure what he is trying to do. There are kids here who commit crimes that say." Oh! I hope I get the judge that sends you to church. That shit is easy" They go to the 45 min Saturday evening mass and are out doing the same damn thing they went in for before the cracker gets digested.

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:55 pm

Welcome Iona! Very Happy

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:00 am

That is unconstitutional. It's also stupid and a slap in the face of anyone who's not a Christian. I'd suggest letting the ACLU know about it, to be fair.

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:40 am

Eon wrote:

That is unconstitutional. It's also stupid and a slap in the face of anyone who's not a Christian. I'd suggest letting the ACLU know about it, to be fair.

Admittedly, I'm no constitutional expert nor do I care to be, but does the constitution actually lay out what is appropriate punishment for criminals? If so, does it also preclude this sort of punishment?

Just Arrived Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 4

Thank you SvZurich!. No it doesn't say what punishment is just for offenders but I remember when that going to church thing was brought to trial and was deemed constitutional because the judge let you pick your own church/temple/building or whatever. To me putting someone in a Christian themed class is not exactly freedom of religion.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:35 am

iona_yanira wrote:

Thank you SvZurich!. No it doesn't say what punishment is just for offenders but I remember when that going to church thing was brought to trial and was deemed constitutional because the judge let you pick your own church/temple/building or whatever.

This seems rather odd to me. When sentenced to jail time the judge doesn't give the criminal the choice of what prison they get to go too. Why should a judge allow the convicted any choice in their punishment whatsoever? It seems to me the choice of what punishment is given should only be selected by the law/constitution or in certain cases by the judge, which are generally within lawful parameters.

Disclaimer: I don't find the ideology of punishment sound to begin with, I'm only arguing the "constitutionality" under this system.

Quote:

To me putting someone in a Christian themed class is not exactly freedom of religion.

Rights are usually ceded when convicted of crimes.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:15 am

The problem I have with this is the assumption that religious worship is an effective reformer. It implies that godlessness leads to criminality, which is patently untrue (indeed, the reverse may be true). The law under a secular constitution should not be taking a position on that question.

Just Arrived Joined: Dec 01, 2008 Posts: 4

Agreed most of the people there had already been convicted and had to gone to church before. They usually take that punishment because its easy. A guy I know had 4 dui's will go to church drunk sunday morning because its part of his probation.

Graduate Thinker Joined: Mar 26, 2008 Posts: 550

Eon wrote:

The problem I have with this is the assumption that religious worship is an effective reformer. It implies that godlessness leads to criminality, which is patently untrue (indeed, the reverse may be true). The law under a secular constitution should not be taking a position on that question.

What makes it worse is that their assumption is completely wrong- or should be seen as proven wrong- and they still think that worship is effective.

But if there is any effectiveness in it, it is due rather to emotion and not religion.

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:34 am

Eon wrote:

The problem I have with this is the assumption that religious worship is an effective reformer. It implies that godlessness leads to criminality, which is patently untrue (indeed, the reverse may be true). The law under a secular constitution should not be taking a position on that question.

Yes, I agree with this completely. I certainly wouldn't consider this form of punishment affective, and for some individuals, it might not be considered a punishment at all.

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:40 am

I would have chosen Church. I would have debated EVERYTHING and asked questions on EVERYTHING. They would be begging the Judge to lock me up.


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